[GoLUG] Mailing list, long term.

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:12:00 -0700
Ron <ron at bclug.ca> wrote:

> Steve Litt wrote on 2025-08-17 10:55:
> 
> > At this point, allow me to introduce the Litt Principle. After 
> > you've found a bunch of "solutions" that don't meet your needs, the 
> > time arrives where best use of your time is to roll your own.  
> 
> Today I Learned - systemd used the Litt Principle.

LOL, I investigated a heck of a lot more alternatives than the systemd
people did. They investigated sysvinit and upstart, and called it a day.

Daemontools (2001) + sysvinit PID1, runit (2004), and OpenRC (2007 all
existed before systemd was a gleam in Lennart's eye, let alone before
Debian made their decision. One could argue that Daemontools and OpenRC
required somebody else's PID1, usually that of sysvinit, but there was
absolutely nothing wrong with sysvinit's PID1 in the 00's: The problem
was their awful system for running daemons.

> >> I'd argue that the cooperation of a mailing list was long 
> >> obsoleted by a combination of bug/issue trackers.  The random 
> >> conversations are cool and all, and also available on any number 
> >> of forum-like tools or just IRC-like tools.  
> > 
> > But/issue trackers are junk.  
> 
> No, they aren't.
> 
> 
> > They're where bugs go to die.  
> 
> I'm not seeing here any correlation between the tools used to track
> bugs and the prompt addressing of the bugs.

You weren't on the VimOutliner list. Were you on the early Samba list?
Last time I looked, a suggestion by me on the CTWM list eventually lead
to a big improvement in Alt+Tab behavior. On the Lua list, I was the
impetus for adding a continue statement for loops. 

LOL, on the LyX list I gave them working code to export *semantic* HTML
instead of the pidgeon HTML they'd been exporting. Dr Eberhard Lisse,
being the smart fellow he is, told me to put it in the bug tracker. I
wrote back saying I'd spent a whole day formulating the code, and if
they wanted it on the tracker, one of them could put it on. Ever the
genius, Dr. Eberhard Lisse gave me a lecture, I told him a simple
"thank you" to me would have sufficed, and he said he'd give no thank
you and gave me some sort of insult I long since forgot. I promptly
diverted that monument to modern intellect, Dr. Eberhard Lisse, to
/dev/null, as far as I know they never did get away from their stupid
pidgeon HTML export, and let's just say I don't offer a whole lot of
help in the LyX list anymore.

If I had to memorize the bug tracker user interface for every project I
participate in, I'd never have time to actually be of value.

> 
> 
> >> Syeed Ali wrote on 2025-08-17 07:35:
> >> 
> >> Because you'd have to reproduce the functionality of existing 
> >> ticketing systems to make something functionality, and you'd also 
> >> reproduce the same problems with the same sorts of bugs and 
> >> humans.  
> > 
> > I would NEVER subject people to an automated bug tracker or 
> > ticketing system. Impersonal, a hassle when the reporter cannot
> > tell the whole story, and it adds yet another ticket system user 
> > interface the reporter must learn.  
> 
> Sy is right and proposing an entire replacement for mailing lists is
> quite the ironic instance of "another [...] user interface the [user] 
> must learn.

Yeah, and it will be as simple as falling out of bed, both on the
client and on the server.

> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> > You'd need an additional client. The MindMeld client.  
> 
> You're strenuously against inserting Javascript in your web pages but
> also want people to run Python code downloaded from the internet with
> full access to their ~ folder and its contents?

What I'm against is complexificating what could easily be a nice static
web page with Javascript and a database. If I were building a true web
application, of course I'd use Javascript for the stuff that isn't
static.

Python's the language people are most likely to be able to read. Would
you like the client in Go?

> 
> I don't get that.
> 
> At least JS is heavily sandboxed and can't access my file system.
 
A lot of software we run on our desktops and laptops either is or has
some Python. 


SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2023 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques