[GoLUG] LLMs can't reason

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 23:07:53 -0700
Kyle Terrien <kyle at terren.us> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 01:18:28PM -0700, Ron wrote:
> > Steve Litt wrote on 2025-06-10 13:11:
> >   
> > > I could easily make the argument that human beings can't reason.
> > > Humans use different mental tools than LLMs, but I would say that
> > > for questions asked in text form, LLMs' reasoning is well above
> > > the reasoning of the median human.
> > > 
> > > Let's compare the LLM to the guy next door on his afternoon's
> > > third can of King Cobra, rathern than comparing it to Isaac
> > > Newton or Albert Einstein.  
> > 
> > Well said, cannot agree more.
> > 
> > 
> > The fact that LLMs are asked to do things that are inappropriate
> > for an LLM isn't a strike against LLMs, but against those pesky
> > humans.  
> 
> This is actually a great comparison because it almost highlights a key
> difference: the human has a soul.  Inebriation inhibits intellect and
> will, but they are still there.  

I had the King Cobra in there not to introduce innebriation, but to
introduce stupidity. So let me define stupidity a different way...

I was a bicycle mechanic in 1972, and rode a Sears three speed, with a
basket, to work and all over Chicago. A customer came in and said to me
"hey, you can get an employee discount on a 20 pound Bob Jackson bike,
which is half the weight of your Sears, and then you'll go twice as
fast."

Where do I even start? ChatGPT would NEVER make that mistake.

In Miami in 1973 I knew a hippie who told me he and his girl friend
used "astrological birth control". 

I said "you mean rhythm, right?"

"No, astrological birth control!"

I said "You mean that you refrain from sex during some portions of your
girlfriend's cycle, right?"

"Exactly!"

"Well buddy, that's the same as rhythm, which has about an 80%
protection rate, which means every year you have a 20% chance of her
getting pregnant, which means over 5 years there's over a 50% chance
you'll be a daddy."

The guy turned green.

Kyle, these people exist. People like us never meet them because we're
busy hanging out with folks smarter than us, but these dummies exist,
and let me tell you, ChatGPT would never tell someone they could double
their speed by halfing the weight of their bicycle, nor would it
endorse the rhythm method for people who absolutely must not get
pregnant. Rhythm is for people who want to have only 3 or 4 kids in
their 25 years of fertility. A light bicycle matters only going up hill
or accelerating, and you're halfing just the bike, not the combined bike
and rider.

My estimate would be that ChatGPT would be in the upper half, and maybe
well into the upper half, of the 18+ year old American populace.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2023 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques