[GoLUG] [GTALUG] Status of Debian and derivatives, or flatpak/appimage/snap discussion redux

[Steve Litt]

Nick Accad via Talk said on Fri, 28 Nov 2025 12:53:06 -0500

>Hi
>
>Recently I have been noticing that more and more of my daily-use
>packages in Debian are old.
>
>I am not talking about stuff in "Stable" where versions are not
>upgraded but fixes are backported, I am using Sid as my main
>workstation, and some stuff is really old
>
>Example is rssguard, in Debian (any release), it is stuck on version
>4.0.4, github is on 4.8.6.
>
>I started digging, and I found out that there are over 4000 packages in
>Debian that are either orphared, or the maintainer is asking for help.
>
>This is not sustainable, 

I don't think this is about Debian (and I'm not a Debian fan by any
means). This is about two things:

1) There are thousands of pieces of software. No distro can or should
be expected to maintain all of that.

2) The modern hobby of overcomplexificating software, with tens of
dependencies which themselves have tens of dependencies, so building a
working, bug free executable is a monumental task. What could POSSIBLY
go wrong?

3) Developers (I mean real developers, not the distro guys who corral a
bunch of versionated code bases into a working application) should
learn to say "no" to all these whacked out "new feature" requests and
requests for "pretty" at the expense of simplicity.

>The immediate solution for me is to use flatpaks. 

Flatpaks are no more a solution than putting a penny in the fusebox to
prevent fuse blowing, putting coins on the tonearm of an audio
turntable to prevent the needle from skipping, or "fixing" a roof leak
by placing a bucket under the leak. When the symptom rather than the
root cause is addressed, there are always unpleasant side effects (the
house burning down, the vinyl records wearing out faster, or the wood
under the leak rotting into pulp).

The solution is to use software with a simple supply chain, and if
you're a software author, ignore these bozos screaming "don't invent
the wheel!" If you can avoid a dependency by writing an extra 100 or 200
lines of code yourself, go for it. If Freddie Fashionfollower wants
your software to "look native", ignore him if it requires more
dependencies. Strive to issue software compileable with just a gcc
command, or Python software using only the well curated Python Standard
Library. THAT'S the true solution.

>The other option is of course to switch to something else, either
>Fedora and derivatives, or Arch and derivatives, but honestly after
>20+ years of Debian, I am the old man who has no patience for new toys.

I guarantee you other distros are going to have the same problem. I use
Void Linux, which has many less package choices than Debian, yet I've
been using it happily for 15 years. Nobody can keep up with the
proliferation of applications with 20 deep, 200 wide dependency trees.

My suggestions to everyone:

* Learn shellscripting and the shellcheck program.

* Learn enough Python to act as a glue language. Ruby and Lua are
  acceptable for this need, and even Perl in a pinch.

* Scale back your aesthetic expectations. Pretty ain't free.

* When evaluating programs, evaluate not only capabilities, speed and
  security, but also level of dependency entanglement.

* If an app requires flatpak, consider that a temporary solution. Then
  find or create an application that gives you what you need.

SteveT

Steve Litt 

http://444domains.com