[GoLUG] LLMs can't reason

[Kyle Terrien]

On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 12:26:50AM -0700, Ron wrote:
> Kyle Terrien wrote on 2025-06-16 22:29:
> 
> > > > It shouldn’t need to be pointed out that the philosophies which
> > > > argue against the existence of a soul are much younger
> > > 
> > > Irrelevant.
> > 
> > It is very relevant.  Those propounding a new theory have to disprove
> > the old one.  So far, they have not.
> 
> No, the proponents of the original theory don't get to claim some kind
> of squatters' rights just because they (claim they) were there first.
> 
> 
> The original "theorists" never provided evidence in the first place.

Never heard of Aquinas, Socrates, or Aristotle?

> > The answers to almost all of your questions are in the resource I linked
> > in the last message.  Here it is again:
> > 
> > https://www.radioreplies.info/radio-replies-vol-1.php?t=5
> 
> Those are *not* *evidence*, not even in the same county as evidence. Not
> a single measurement to be seen.
> 
> It's just philoso-babble.

The humanists who argue against the existence of a soul can’t provide
positive evidence that a soul *doesn’t* exist.

Just because something isn’t directly observed does not automatically
mean it doesn’t exist.  Consider the humble ext4 filesystem.  You’ll
never know about it or how it allocates blocks if all you use is
open(), read(), write(), and close() to observe it, but the ext4
filesystem still exists under the hood.

> > > So, fish, insects, cows, and worms have souls to animate them?
> > 
> > Yes, but they have animal souls, not human souls.  (See the above link.)
> > 
> > > (If so, is it sinful to eat meat?)
> > 
> > No, because an animal soul is different, and humans are above animals.
> > (See the above link.)
> 
> Hindus might differ, but I suppose their religion is wrong because (hand
> waving)... We've arrived at our predetermined conclusion!

There is an answer to this specific question, but I won’t waste my
breath.  (Yep, it’s in the book.)

> > Someone actually pulled off a Dr. Frankenstein operation?
> 
> You've not heard of a defibrillator before?!?
> 
> You've probably been in close vicinity to at least one today:
> 
> https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-medical-devices/
> automated-external-defibrillators-aeds.html

Defibrillators are not Dr. Frankenstein magic.  They restore life that
was recently lost.  However, no defibrillator can bestow *new* life.
Once someone is long gone, it doesn’t matter how many times you zap
him.  He won’t resurrect.

> > (If you want the hard details, then see the above link.)
> 
> The "Catholic Apologetics Online"?  A pathetic link lacking in any evidence
> whatsoever.

Certainly more credible than recycled arguments from /r/atheism.

> Imagine trying to explain it to aliens from another galaxy who are not
> indoctrinated in any theology and have devices that can measure things
> beyond our wildest dreams.  Mr Spock from Star Trek, if you wish...
> 
> How would you convince them? What empirical (measurable) evidence would
> you tell them to look for?

Easy.  See Question/Answers 1-2 in the same book.  But, oh, you don’t
want to hear it.  Do you?  That’s too bad, because Mr. Spock would
find it (in his words) fascinating: root cause, uncreated creator,
universal moral constants, etc.  It means something to a coldly
logical Vulcan like Mr. Spock, even if it means nothing to a typical
earthling in 2025.

(Side note: 2025 years from what?  🙂)

After the big question is settled, I would like to hear Mr. Spock’s
opinions on the Free Software movement, which color best optimizes the
bikeshed, and whether a hot dog is a taco.

-- 
[*] Kyle Terrien
    Terrenus => from the Earth, to the Cloud
    https://terren.us/

Dilexisti justitiam, et odisti iniquitatem.  -- Psalmus 44:8